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  • Afarensis
    reality based humanoid's blog
  • Origin of Species Online
    For God's sake, read the dang thing before you proclaim any thoughts on evolution!! Now it's online at your fingertips. Go. Read. Then, pontificate if you must.
  • Talk Origins
    The master site containing the most comprehensive of evolution and anti-evolution sites and information on the web. A model example of how to really teach the controversy.

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Comments

VKW

How about "Fuzzy Logic" ID? You ask them how old the Earth is and they get all fuzzy in their answer. They don't seem to see a connection between the age of the Earth and the possible mechanisms for speciation.

Duane

Robert Pennock's list of "species of creationists" is instructive. I'm not sure but Denyse O'Leary seems to me to be a sub-species of an "ET creationist." You are correct that she is a creationist. One of the things that needs to be done, and you are working do it, is to permanently fix the burden of proof on anyone who holds any special creationists views however well concealed they may be. Of course, it is possible to have non-Darwinian non-creationist views but all of them far been proposed have been proven wrong.

RPM

I'd refrain from using ring species as evidence for anything as it is not clear whether or not they are really species. As Coyne and Orr point out in Speciation most examples of ring species involved some period of allopatry, thereby rejecting the ring model for those examples. Recent molecular evidence also questions the reality of ring species.

There are plenty of example of "fuzzy" boundaries between species that one need not invoke ring species. It has come to be accepted that two populations can be considered species even if they have some gene flow, provided it's minimal.

Joe mcFaul

RPM,

I can't disagree. I happened to be reading the chapter in Darwin's Origin where he talks about the graduations of species or varieties of species up a mountainside, for example, and I was struck by the similarity to ring species. But, as you point out, there iare plenty of examples of fuzzy speicies without the necessity to refer to a faily rare event.

Ed Darrell

I thought that the salamanders around the San Fernando Valley in California -- and on up into Washington -- were a quite clear cut case of true ring species. Especially since studies show that geographically adjacent species can interbreed, but beyond that it gets much less likely.

No?

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Karlton G. Kemerait

Excellent article...thanks!

It's amazing, the twists and turns a creationist will take in order to deceive the general public. http://mainereason.blogspot.com/2010/12/integrity-of-creationism.html

Thanks Again!

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