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Ron Zeno

The intelligent design creationists don't like being caught in their own doublethink. The article on creationequation is gone, but the cache and copies are still available:

http://www.creationdigest.com/archives/ScientistsSquareOffinNewMexico.htm
http://www.gtibooks.com/archives/ScientistsSquareOffinNewMexico.htm

Joe McFaul

Thanks for the links!

Joolya

In America, when we say "religion" or "God" that is code for "Christian" or "Judeo-Christian Biblical deity", right? Do you think the ID people would admit a non-Christian creator? Why do we consistently let this slide by, as though it were incontestable, when there are billions of non-Christians in the world who may or may not be proponents of ID? If ID does not equal creationism in its historical sense, then it must be willing to admit a non-denominational creator as a possibility, which would be in direct conflict with many (most?) of its proponents. No?

J. Harris

Darwinian Evolution vs Intelligent Design

The issue of Darwinian Evolution vs Intelligent Design has sparked quite a debate in America, and around the world. Ever since the Scopes Trial there has been sharp debate on each side. What one really has to understand is to comprehend the facts of each issue, trying to eliminate their emotions, so that there can be a rational debate, instead of emotional diatribe. First, let us examine Darwinian Evolution.

What is Darwinian Evolution? Darwinian Evolution was started by Charles Darwin to explain the origin of species around the world, apart from intelligent design. His main motivation for his science was to distance the creation of the world, and all it contains, from a master designer, or God. He tried to explain how creatures came about through an evolutionary process over millions of years. He expounds that everything can be explained via scientific observance apart from a master creator, or God. Why don’t we begin with some definitions, since words mean things.

Science. What is the definition of science? Here is what Websters’ Dictionary states:
“based on using, or in accordance with, the principles and methods of science; systematic and exact; designing the method of research in which a hypothesis, formulated after systematic, objective collection of data, is tested empirically.”

Here we have the definition of science. What is this definition really stating? The real definition of science is a method of research in which a hypothesis is formulated using a systematic, objective collection of data. This means that a scientist is able to prove his/her hypothesis by observing an experiment in a laboratory and being able to prove the results by repeating the data and coming up with the same results time and time again. If one takes this to the natural field, then one would have to be able to observe that process over and over again and coming up with the same results each and every time. This means that we can only prove what we can observe at that moment in time.

Thus how can one call Darwinian Evolution science when one states that something occurred millions or billions of years ago when they were unable to observe that action occurring at that particular time? This is contrary to the very definition of science. Let us go to the very heart of Darwinian Evolution.

There are six basic concepts of Darwinian Evolution.

1) Cosmic Evolution-Big Bang makes hydrogen
2) Chemical Evolution-higher elements evolve
3) Evolution of stars and planets from gas
4) Organic Evolution-life from rocks
5) Macro-Evolution-changes between kinds of plants and animals
6) Micro-Evolution-changes within kinds

Out of all of these six basic concepts, only one (#6) can be observed and called science, from the very definition of science. The first five are believed by faith alone.

Let us now go to the so-called evidence of the Darwinian Evolutionary scientists.

A) Lucy has been now been proven to only be a three foot tall chimpanzee.
B) Heidelberg Man was build from the jaw bone of a man.
C) Nebraska Man was built up from the tooth of an extinct pig.
D) Piltdown Man was found to be the jawbone from a modern ape
E) Peking Man was suppose to be 500,000 years old, but was found to be a fake and all evidence has since disappeared.
F) Neanderthan Man was found to be a skeleton from an old man that suffered from arthritis.
G) New Guinea Man dates back to 1970.
H) Cro-Magnon Man has been dated with man dating only back thousands of years.

The age of fossils has been found to be in error by hundreds of millions of years due to the circular reasoning used for carbon dating. When one brings in a fossil to be examined the scientist asks for an approximate date by where they can start dating that particular fossil. For example, one skeptic buried a pig bone in their back yard for 20 years and brought it to a prominent laboratory to be examined and he told the scientist that it was found in rock dating 200,000 years old. The scientists dated that pig bone to be over 100,000 years old!

The evolutionary scientists have used the argument of gill slits in a human embryo trying to prove that man evolved via a fish stage millions of years ago. The fact is that Earnst Haeckel made up the drawings in 1869 and have proven to be false. The “gills” are folds of skin.

Another argument used are “Vestigial” organs. These are being used to try and “prove” that we evolved from animals with tails. This also was proven to be false as these are simply nine muscles that attach to the tail bone and are not “vestigial.”

Still another argument still being used is that whales have a vestigial pelvis, “proving” that they evolved from a land dwelling creature. This also has been proven to be false as the “vestigial pelvis” is simply bones serving as anchor points for their muscles.

Still another argument used is the “gluon.” These scientists have said that “gluons” hold the atom together. Another lie. Gluons are a made-up dream. No one has ever seen them or measured them. They are a desperate theory to explain something that no one has been able to explain. We still, to this day, cannot explain why atoms simply do not explode. We cannot explain what holds them together.

Here are the facts of the atom: The electrons of the atom whirl around the nucleus billions of times every millionth of a second and that that nucleus of the atom consists of particles called neutrons and protons. Neutrons have no electrical charge and are therefore neutral, BUT protons have positive charges. One law of electricity is like charges repel each other. Since all the protons in the nucleus are positively charged, they should repel each other and scatter into space. No scientist in the world can explain this phenomenon.

In the 100+ years since Darwin’s death there have been literally millions of fossils found. NOT ONE of these fossils have proven that one species of animal or man has evolved from another species. The artistic masterpieces in museums all over the country show a number of species, starting from a chimpanzee all the way to man, with man in various stages of development, with absolutely no evidence that these “intermediary men” even exist.

Now why should those who really desire to know the truth believe scientists who have been lying to us for hundreds of years? The fake men that were mentioned above to prove Darwinian Evolution are still being printed in high school text books!

This is what makes those who believe in Intelligent Design so angry. Because scientists have been deceiving the public for so many years. As of this date; Darwinian Evolution is based upon faith, not fact.

Those of us who believe that the Bible is the truth also cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that matter, man, plants and animals came to be in the six days of creation. BUT, we have One who was there and He mentioned that His Father DID create ALL things in six literal days. How? No one will ever know. How does one create something out of nothing? For us mere humans it is unthinkable and unknowable. Science will never be able to prove how all matter came to exist, and we have to be o.k. with that unknowable knowledge. In fact, if one studies botany then one will find out that after hundreds of years of the study of plants, then one realizes that we cannot even fully explain photosynthesis!

Now here is what we believe, for those of us who believe that the Bible is the Word of God. His Word to man is infallible. One MUST understand that the Bible is NOT a science book, nor was it ever intended to be. The Bible is God’s Word to man about redemption. The redemption of a people, the Hebrews, chosen by God to bring God’s message of salvation to the Nations. The Bible is God’s Word to man to bring ALL men, and women, to repentance so as to escape the wrath of Father God when His Son, Jesus Christ, returns to the earth to judge the living and the dead. As it is written:
“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering towards us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9

Here are the scriptures concerning creation:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters then God said,’ Let there be light;’ and there was light.” Genesis 1:2

“Then God said, ‘Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree the yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth’; and it was so.” Gen 1:11

So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kinds. And God saw that it was good.” Gen 1:21

“And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps upon the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.” Gen 1:25

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” Gen 1:26

Notice that it states that GOD created everything that we see. Not some “big bang.” This is opposed to our current Darwinian Evolutionary scientists. Also notice that God created everything “ACCORDING TO ITS OWN KIND.” They did not “evolve.” That is why scientists have not been able to find any intermediary fossils. THERE ARE NONE.

Now, you may argue, “Well, this does not prove anything, it is just a book.” You are partly right. We cannot prove, as the definition of science states, but the Bible is not just another book. Now comes the strongest evidence.

Who is Jesus Christ? What did He say about Himself? Is He crazy? Is He a liar? Is He the Lord of the universe? Just who is this “man?” What does the Bible say about Him? Why don’t we start in the book of Isaiah the prophet.

“For unto us a child is born. Unto us a son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him (that is Jesus Christ) all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.” Colossians 1:15-17
“looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13

The above scriptures are what others have said about Jesus Christ. But what does He say about Himself? Is He God in the flesh? Why would we mention that Jesus is God? What does this have to do with Darwinian Evolution vs Intelligent Design? Actually, it has much to do with the subject. The reason being is that Jesus Christ Himself mentioned scriptures out of 37 books of the 39 books of the Old Testament. He mentioned more scriptures from the book of Genesis than any other single book.

He talks about creation being six days of work and one day of rest. He talks about Adam and Eve being created exactly how it is mentioned in the book of Genesis. But more importantly, He was an eyewitness to the creation of the heavens and the earth. Not only that but He created all matter that we explore today (See Colossians 1:15-17). So, He being the Creator, why would He say that it took six days to create?

Why would He quote the book of Genesis, the exact wording that we have today, and say that it is perfect? Is there any other human being who witnessed the creation? Do any of the Darwinian Evolution scientists claim to have been an eyewitness to the creation of the heavens and the earth? At this point you will have to either concede that Jesus Christ is a phony, that the Bible is not true, that scientists are smarter than God, OR that Jesus Christ is God, that He created ALL matter and that the Bible is the Word of God. You will have to decide for yourselves.

Here is Jesus Christ speaking:

“that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.” John 5:23-24

“And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:40

“Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God, He has seen the Father. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.” John 6:46-47

“Jesus said to them, ‘Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58

“And God said to Moses, ‘I AM WHO I AM.’ And He said, ‘Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.” Exodus 3:14

“Then Jesus cried out and said, ‘He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me.” John 12:44-45

“Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me.” John 14:6

“Philip said to Him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him ‘Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father?’
Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.” John 14:8-11

He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” John 14:21

“And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one.” John 17:22

These scriptures speak of a man who claimed to be God Almighty walking around as a man. When Jesus said “Before Abraham was, I AM.” He was quoting out of Exodus 3:14, where Moses was talking to God Almighty on the mountain. If you study the text the Jews were going to kill Jesus by stoning Him to death, for He claimed to be God and this was the sin of blasphemy, unless He was really God.

So you will need to make up your mind; is Jesus Christ God Almighty or not? If you believe that He is who He says He is, then you will have to just believe that He created all matter, all life, everything that we see and study in the natural world. Just because we are unable to explain it apart from His creative work does not mean that man & animals just “evolved.” We can try to explain away things and make up fossils to try and “prove” that there is no God, but just because we don’t believe in Him does not make it true that He is not real.

Please let me know if you have some evidence about Darwinian Evolution that has not been found. I am sure that many would be interested, but PLEASE do not call something “science” that does not even fit the definition of the word.

God bless you all!
Jay Harris

Carl Drews

Grace and peace to all who read this post, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

God's revelation to us comes in (at least) two forms: God's word in the Bible, and from the study of God's creation, which we call science.

Genesis 1 briefly refers to biological evolution. The repeated phrase “let the earth bring forth” in verses 11, 20 (with water), and 24 are best understood in terms of theistic evolution. The earth is the agent of God's creation, and it brings forth new creatures at His command. Genesis 2 continues the theme, as humans and the animals are created from the dirt, the soil of this planet. According to the scientific theory of evolution, life ultimately arose from the dirt, the weathered rocks, and the primordial oceans. Genesis 1 and 2 are in agreement with evolutionary theory, and they contradict the idea of “direct creation” espoused by some creationist groups. The allusions to evolution are brief because Genesis is primarily a faith account; the scientific details are incidental.

Charles Darwin echoed this Biblical theme in his book “Origin of Species”. The closing sentence of the sixth edition reads, "There is grandeur in this [evolutionary] view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved." Darwin's use of the term “Creator” here is a clear reference to God in the Victorian language of his time.

We turn to the Smithsonian Institution for evidence from God's creation. Follow the link below (or paste it in) to see a lineup of transitional hominid skulls, from a chimpanzee-like primate to modern humans. (I'll include the link in several forms to be sure it appears.)

http://www.theistic-evolution.com/transitional.html#Smithsonian

http://www.theistic-evolution.com/transitional.html#Smithsonian

You'll note that Piltdown man is not included in the sequence. We have a clear succession of skulls from ape-like creatures to modern humans, and I doubt that any creationist would assert that chimpanzees are humans are the same Biblical “kind”.

All of this has very little to do with your salvation. That's right, I'm talking to YOU. What does the Bible say about salvation? Romans 10 says: “9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.” (NIV) John 3:16 echoes the same idea: Salvation is a lot about Jesus and nothing about biology!

In Christ's service,
Carl Drews
theistic-evolution.com (don't forget the dash!)

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